I was part of a discussion recently that went from one topic that should never be discussed to another. From Politics to Religion. Both of these topics are sure to get people defensive and argumentative about there views.
Since this is Spiritual discussions dot com I thought I would make you privy to this conversation. Of course the Names have been changed to protect the privacy of those involved, and where the conversation took place shall forever be my secret.
But I thought it would be fun to continue that Spiritual discussion here.
I’d like you to pay particular attention to how strongly some will guard their beliefs without any opening to allow it to be brought into question. This does not make learning possible! If we are not open to new ideas and concepts, we stay stuck where we are. Taking a standpoint is understandable, and honorable; to a point! But being so ridged as to not ask, and be open to another’s point of view, leaves us without understanding the person, or the view held!
Even if we disagree we can learn a lot about each other and ourselves by keeping an open mind.
This coversation starts with a Comment about Harry S. Truman but turns quickly to Spiritual discussions. Enjoy and let’s continue it! (Note: I have entered my thoughts on the discussion in parenthesis and Italics as I have here. They are not part of the original conversation.)
BART- Even though Harry Truman was called “Give ‘Em Hell Harry”, he said that he never actually gave anyone hell. He said that he just told people the truth and it felt like hell! Oh that we had a few Harry Truman’s today to speak the truth instead of the lies of political correctness. Only by knowing the truth will we ever be set free. And that my friends is BIBLICAL! 🙂
(My thought was OK Cool! Let’s talk about truth! But I admit I was WAY off topic LOL)
Rick Willey -How’s this for truth? ~ To judge another is to share with them the Hell you live in.~ I used to think that people who said “God speaks to me” were delusional & insane! But God just told me these very words I just shared with you! “I was blind but now I see!!” the truth of those words! I love THIS insanity MUCH better!!
Jack- We don’t have to live in hell. We are in Christ, seated on the right hand of God, far above all principalities, power, might, and dominion. That is what God says in his word. NOT, that we share the hell that we live in, sorry revelation from God almighty will never contradict his word.
The only way for us to live in hell here on earth is if we allow ourselves, by not believing the ACCURACY OF GOD’S WORD.
We must always tell the truth, even if people don’t like it. We have no friends when the ACCURACY of God’s word is at stake. Because God’s word means what it says and it says what it means. And God has a purpose why he says it, when he says it, to whom he says, how he says it, and where he says it. It is his word not ours to privately interpret it. Love your heart and stand brother.
( Notice here how often “Jack” uses the word believe rather than KNOW and his defensive attacks to keep those beliefs secure. He also totally misses my point about sharing the hell we live in, yet proves its truth. And I have no idea Who he refers to as “Brother” Not that I have any problem with it, just not sure if he is referring to me or not)
Rick Willey- It’s just my experience; but it’s one thing to believe Gods word and try to live by it. And quite another to know that YOU ARE the living word of God! Not intellectually but EXPERIENTIALY! Sure changed MY LIFE! And no church could ever give me What GOD has personally revealed to me! Sound like a holy rolling idiot even to myself, but I CANT deny who “I AM”! NOR how the”ACCURACY” of his Word has surgically removed my illusions! Thank You God! My cup truly does run over! (Oh! BTW it was through Gods words in Buddhism, Hinduism, The Bible & A COURSE IN MIRACLES as well as many other “forms” that the realization of the eternal FORMLESS came upon me. Now I know that you & I & GOD…ARE ONE!) May this blessing TRUTH be known by all! I’m doing my best to share this. Not preach it!
But how can you share His words when “words are but symbols, twice removed from reality!” (In other words the word tree is not the tree itself and the tree isn’t real either. )
Kent- “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” John 1:1 Some of the posts here are a perfect example of how truth becomes twisted by human philosophies and ideas and yet… his word remains true. “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes unto the Father except through Me.” John 14:6 Truth is found in Jesus. Not philosophy or religion.
( NO argument here! LOL)
Jack- I agree Kent. Experiences have nothing to do with truth. The only source of truth is God’s word, not your or my experiences count if it contradicts the word of God.
( can you experience an illusion? Sure ya can!! We all do it every day! Just go to the movies! So why would we think that TRUTH should be any different? Also, Did we forget that ALL things work to the good and glory of God? That thru our experiences we LEARN? Life IS an experience and is meant to be experienced!)
Jack- Sorry Mr.Willey, but you cannot know the one true God through Buddhism, Hinduism, or any other religions. The only way is to know his word. When you play baseball you go by the baseball rulebook, if you play on God’s team you got to go by his rulebook, not your experiences or feelings. That is why the world is in the shape it is, because people count on those experiences and feelings and think that it must be right, instead of reading the rulebook for life.
(“you cannot know the one true God through Buddhism, Hinduism, or any other religions.” Really Jack? IE yours is the only one that’s right? Is that what you mean Jack? BE Honest! I know TONS of people who have found the love of God thru MANY paths! Rule book? Huh!? Sounds like, to me, he hasn’t read about the Pharisees who tried to live by the law.. If he has; He doesn’t seem to understand it. Jesus teaches LOVE!…NOT RULES JACK! And I’m TRYING to show you this! Readers what are Your thoughts on this?)
Rick Willey- Dear Jack, You may have your opinions and beliefs about what I experience. I’ll not argue doctrine with you sir. Religion or experiences have absolutely NOTHING to do with what I’m talking about.
But what words could I use to express what this is? Anything I could say about it would fall far short of it’s truth! Any attempt at words to explain it, would only fall victim to the interpretation of the reader or listener. I know what’s in my heart. I know what “animates” this body and moves within it. I need not defend a belief I have, nor the love I share with my creator and all that is! I know I cannot share this as a concept or idea because it is neither! (The interpretation of the reader is YOU Jack! But you can’t hear me and it breaks my heart! And I tell you this in the next line!)
What I CAN DO is share the perfect love that is so freely given me with those who would accept it.
For those who are not yet ready, I can still love and forgive them and patiently wait; as was done for me!
(Will Ya Jack? For the TRUE love of GOD will ya? Can ya just let go & let GOD do his work or are YOU gonna do it? When will you be ready to let go of rules and let love in!? Now..to you my readers. Be honest with ME! AM I holding on to a belief or sharing LOVE? Your feedback here means a lot to me!)
God is teaching me to live by love…his first rule. I need only to allow love to happen on it’s own. It needs nothing from me but an empty vessel for it to take residence.
So Jack (and all of us!) can we allow this? I have no intent of malice. Only that we let love be our guide and our teacher! Are ya good with that?? ( I’m asking again for your love Jack; Will ya give it to me? If not me then to GOD?)
Bart- Rick, not totally following you but are u actually claiming to be one with God?? That you are the living word of God, the great “I AM”??
Rick Willey- YES I AM! But more than this! That YOU are as well! WE ALL ARE!
We live in a false world of duality! An Illusion made by the EGO (Genesis chapter 1)
If you study Quantum physics; even cursory; you will see that Science is beginning to see the unreality of our physical world! TRUST ME I had a real hard time with this at first!! ( A huge understatement! lol)
So I will understand if anyone else does as well! (Boy do I ever!!)
I am also Stating that I have had the privilege to “Experience” “SEE” or was “shown” the realization of this for myself! (Notice i said realization! not belief! how can you realize a belief?? lol)
This is WHY I cannot explain what IS!
There simply ARE no words! Words are form! GOD is formless!
So how can one use form to explain that which has NONE?
You can only POINT to it And HOPE one does a good enough Job that people will understand.. (Does “Let those that have an ear and eyes to see” …ring a bell?)
(ding ding ding! I’m pointing to something here! YOUR PHONE IS RINGING!)
I would go on to say that My extensive (to me at least) research on Religions of the world; also ALL point to this!! INCLUDING THE BIBLE if read correctly! We are NOT taught this! But the BIBLE is FULL of references to it! Please.. Don’t ask me for chapters & verses! I am NOT one to memorize verses But rather I let “my Intuition” Holy Spirit or however you choose to label it “Speak” to my heart and teach me! I know that sounds weird but How crazy is it to pray to GOD and NOT expect him to talk back!? That is what INTUITION IS!
( My extensive (to me at least) research on Religions of the world GOES BACK MORE THAN 20 years not that it matters but that kind of dedication WILL lead you somewhere! Not bragging but rather again pointing to the promise that what you seek you WILL find!)
So The “ACCURACY” of the WORD of GOD has been “bastardized” by men!
What is Belief but a lack of KNOWLEDGE? Truth asks nothing but to allow it to be present! What does LOVE ask? Just to be Present! AND SHARED! THIS IS THE WILL OF GOD! Not rules! The Pharisees Lived by the law…Right? HMMM….
Look at other Religions my Friends! Close your eyes; close your mind; BUT OPEN YOUR HEARTS!! Remove the RELIGEON from HE WHO HAS NONE!!
(Do you think it would’ve mattered if I pointed out that a belief asks for Itself!? Hmm Just Like the ego does!)
Rick Willey- Bart…Do you EVER call yourself I AM? I AM hungry, tired, in love! Are YOU the I AM? Think about it! Would not GOD Share himself TOTALLY with you? He would NOT have us Separated! But EGO (Or “Satan” if you prefer…SAME THING FOLKS!) Would have you deceived AS SEPARATE! Why do we have WAR? to “divide an conquer!” This is it’s GOAL!!
I WHOLE HEARTEDLY BESEECH all of you to Study A COURSE IN MIRACLES and compare it’s teachings with the hidden meanings of the Bible! It talks to you straight without all the parables you need to decipher. But the message is the SAME! Just as the message is the same in the TAO, Buddhist, and Hindu traditions..The STORY Is all that changes! The MESSAGE is the same!!
(Nope I like being a separate individual! If you take that away from me who would I be? Fear generated by ego blocks the love that is just underneath it! Pull the curtain and LOOK! Oooooh I guarantee you like what you find Soooo much better!)
Kent- Rick: I’m sorry, man, (yeah me too Kent)but what you’re saying is out and out heresy and New Age philosophy that is as old as the lie of Satan himself when he said to Eve “Did God REALLY say?” You are not God.( I never said I was GOD Kent! You heard what you wanted to hear! I SAID I was One WITH GOD! We share each other totally! But make no mistake! I am His creation! Maybe I wasn’t clear enough on that. What do you guys think?)That is exactly the type of heresy that got Satan kicked out of heaven( …and Got Jesus murdered?) (it’s in Ezekiel 28 if you want to read it) You are placing your experience above the revealed TRUTH of the word of God. (Interesting he said revealed which means uncovered. But what has not been revealed is the EGO/Satan in each of us that covers that word. That is OUR part to deal with: Using Jesus and the holy Spirit to guide us. AND…What is a revelation but a REALIZATION!? Which I clearly stated!) And as to Quantum Physics, have you read “The Elegant Universe” by Brian Greene?( Not Yet! But Thanks for the suggestion!) All science points to God, but that is also told to us in Romans 1. To ignore the word in favor of personal experience leads to anything. And as to the love you keep referring to, God’s love for us is shown to us on the cross of Jesus where He gave His Son as a sacrifice for sin. (Sacrifice? Sin? The two are the same! God requires no sacrifice to be loved by Him! And forgiveness is already Given! The thought that we are separate from God IS the Sin!) Nobody is talking about “religion” here. But since you brought up various religions like Buddhism, Hinduism, and any other “ism” you want, NONE of them make provisions for your sin. (How would you know if you haven’t studied these religions? Have you? You don’t say.)The only cure for sin is the cross of Jesus Christ. I’ll say it again, “Jesus said: I am THE Way, THE Truth, THE Life, NO ONE comes unto the Father except THROUGH ME.” (emphasis mine). (Yep Mine too! )Those aren’t my truths. They are God’s. Revealed in His Word. Your experience may say something differently,( NOPE It says EXACTLY THAT!) but experience never trumps truth. Your experience may tell you that you’re capable of flying, but gravity has a different truth that will trump your experience every time. You are not God. You never will be. It is heresy to say you are. GOD is God. Jesus is His Son. ( and you & I are NOT? How’s does that work? Do you Not call God your Father??) The Holy Spirit indwells those who believe. (No Kent it indwells all of us! How can anything live without the power that GOD puts in it to do so?)They are all one. BUT we are NOT them.(Cause we are separate and not worthy of God’s Love? That’s not what the Bible says! It says for ALL have sinned But God So Love the world he sent his only begotten son… Which BTW Is US! Jesus Just happens to be the first to ABSOLUTELY see through the Illusions of his Ego and calls to us to Join the unity we are already a part of! I speak of pieces of one here which is not correct. So don’t take it literally any piece of one is ONE! Language is a clunky tool! )
Jack- Mr Willey., you just proved an important fact that I’ve been trying to get across . And I want to thank you for proving that man thinks so highly of himself with his philosophy, doctrines, and education that he thinks he is smarter than God. (I TOTALLY AGREE!) You say words don’t relay meaning. ( Where did I say that!?? Again you heard and read what you wanted to because that’s what belief DOES! What I said was Words are twice removed from reality! Not that they don’t have meaning. The meaning comes from US Jack; and our perception of what reality is! Case in point people can you see how my words were twisted and reinterpreted to fit the reality of these people? OR How I was Unclear? Help me on this! Can you also see what that type of interpretation can do to the truth of God’s Words? Pay attention to how this plays out. And post your thoughts!) Well, in psalms God put a pretty high value on his word because it says “he magnified his word above all his name” ( Let’s check what it really says! Click here) so you basically say its OK for you to believe what you want. ( Yes I do because I understand What belief and Free will are! Please look up the words! Do at least that much research!)Sir; that means that you think that you are smarter than God. (No it means You BELIEVE I think that! Let’s be clear here please) The devil wants to believe that lie so he can kill you at his will because your beliefs removes that hedge of protection that God puts around you. ( HUH? How can an illusion remove anything but another illusion? Am I missing something here? No… really, AM I?)Buddha or no others ever rose from the grave but JESUS CHRIST did. And according to God’s rulebook (What rule book? Oh Yeah! The Law thing again like the Pharisee’s.) in order to be saved,born again, or a child of God Romans 10:9 and 10 you have to believe that God raise his son from the dead. ( What it SAYS Jack is ..That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. From your own MOUTH Jack you said “And God has a purpose why he says it, when he says it, to whom he says, how he says it, and where he says it. It is his word not ours to privately interpret it.” Notice it says IN YOUR HEART! Not your head! )
Rick Willey- KENT… EXACTLY my point SIR! JESUS IS KING OF KINGS! BUT DOES He NOT Say “Pick up your cross and follow me?” YOUR “CROSS” not HIS! Your “CROSS” is the illusion of separation! Jesus is the WAY THROUGH that illusion! SO When He Says “I AM the truth and the light” He is Referring to the darkness in us that does not see this!
Also I’m Gonna REALLY FLIP YOUR SWITCH!! YES Jesus Died On a CROSS! But not FOR our Sins But BECAUSE of them! We Murdered him! The RESURRECTION is THE POINT! To show US that DEATH is NOT REAL and we WILL be in Heaven THIS DAY! I could get into ASTROTHEOLOGY BUT…I’ll let you look it up. Google the SYMBLOLIC COSMIC MAN and Mr ASTROLOGY. (links added for your convenience and study.)
NEW AGE? No Sir!! Look at this From Wikipedia (Goes to article about a man named Philo. “His allegorical exegesis was important for several Christian Church Fathers…”)
Jesus was also called Jesus of the Nazarene Right? But he was Also said to be BORN IN BETHLEHEM? So what’s up with that? DO your HOMEWORK! The ESSENE BROTHERHOOD was a Religious order of the day. Where were they headquartered?? NAZERETH!
Google ESSENSE teachings! See what you can find! THIS IS where MY JOURNEY began and I cross referenced MANY websites AND THEOLOGIANS and they all teach something VERY DIFFERENT than our churches today!
I’ve Studied Hermetic wisdom, Essene teachings, Astrology, Numerology, Gnostic s, Esoteric wisdom, ETC ( shamanistic religions as well. I wanted to know truth & Still study!
WHY?? I got Sick and Tired of the arguing religions! I WANTED TRUTH!! SO…As Promised! SEEK AND YOU SHALL FIND! What I found I never expected! That Knowledge GREATLY supersedes BELIEF! ( I also found the truth of the words “the Kingdom of GOD is Within YOU!”)
KNOW THYSELF! Does NOT mean know your personality!
That’s a GREAT START! Because how can one know TRUTH if Belief stands in the way!?
I know I won’t convince you! ( Oh but I want to! Can ya tell!?) I Won’t try any more than this! But Break your traditional teaching and SEEK truth! THE BIBLE IS TRUE! EVERY WORD!! But it’s CODED MESSAGES have been misinterpreted and often ON PURPOSE! (I make reference here to The Roman Catholic church which, I found out through my studies, owns ALL or most of the banks in the world!)
So I Went to GOOGLE AND YOUTUBE UNIVERSITY! Looking for ANCIENT WISDOM! A Lot of what I kept hearing from many sources was this SAME GOSPEL MESSAGE re worded re-framed and repackaged!
Don’t take MY word for it! (Funny how we would take some preachers word for “truth” without investigation but DENY any chance to challenge what he says!)
Educate YOURSELF! (please)
Kent- “For Christ also suffered once FOR sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[a] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit” I Peter 3:18. You are using New Age Philosophy to twist the Scriptures, my friend. I have no doubt you’ve studied all those Eastern mystical religions. That is where you have found yourself in gross error. Come to the Truth, Rick. His Name is Jesus.
Jack- So go ahead and believe Google and the other idiots that think they know more than God almighty, Sir I hate to say but your type of ideology is why the government and world is in the shape it is in. (In full attack mode now JACK? The truth is that our EGO mind of separation and specialness leave no room for love! It’s a Dog eat Dog world alright! And may the strongest man kill everyone else! But then what? Now your alone with no one to left to hate, kill, blame judge etc. Sharing your hell with me?) And I’m sorry to that the devil is accomplishing his ministry of stealing, killing, and destroying God’s people (Who Are they can you point them out to me?) by that vain belief and the lie that you just promoted here, that is why I stand on the word and its accuracy. (Really?)So others won’t be deceived by the devil also. You say you have a relationship with God, but what your words say to me, is WHICH GOD? The bible says there are two. One is the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ and the other is the God of this world which is the devil.(But Who is “The Devil” JACK? Some mythological creature that is ALSO separate from you? So you don’t have to take responsibility for your thoughts and actions? Well the devil made me do it but Jesus Died FOR me so it’s OK? I don’t think God quite planned it that way! But I could be wrong too! We both need an Arrogance check here! And could someone please make reference to where it says anywhere in the bible that there are two Gods Please?) If you’re not going by God’s word then you chose the wrong God. ( Look in the Essene mirrors Jack )
Bart- Rick, in all honesty, I haven’t the slightest idea what your original comment had to do with my post. As for all of this other talk, I very strongly disagree w/your beliefs relating to God. You nor I or anyone else is God. (Again I must have not been clear on this; I said; With God NOT I AM God! I guess from the statement of “I AM” I can see the error from their prospective. In a way I did Say that didn’t I? But I said it forgetting that from a dualistic viewpoint, people could have no other way to see it. I AM an Extension of God would be a better way to say this! Much like an arm is an extension of the body. See I learn too! And That was A BIG MISTAKE!) As Ken stated earlier, Jesus said “I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life. NO MAN comes to The Father except THROUGH ME! (TRUE That’s the route I’m taking!Through Christ Whom Dwells WITHIN me! Just like the Bible SAYS!) Matthew 7:13-14 says “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” ( Isn’t that a clue of What I’m saying to all of you!? Stop following the HERD!) My friend, I respect your right to believe whatever it is you do and it is my prayer that you seek the Word of God and find true salvation in Jesus Christ. (Thank You Bart, This my prayer for everyone!) While I value your friendship and hope to continue it in a positive way, please respectfully refrain from making comments concerning these beliefs on any of my future posts as I can assure you of my extension of that same courtesy on any of your posts. Respectfully, Your Friend Bart
Rick Willey No Problem Bart! I’ll just say this one thing before I go, that I KNOW we can ALL AGREE ON! JESUS IS LORD and we are ALL forgiven! LET LOVE RULE YOU! PEACE OUT!
Jack- Mr. Willey one more comment then I will close. If you think that you are God, then create a frog, go ahead, oops can’t do it! Then your belief is a lie and that should prove it. ( Gotta get in one last attack huh? I still Love you Jack! Even though you can’t seem to love me. I forgive you!)
Rick Willey- Jack, Bart has requested that this conversation be ended and I will respect his wishes! However, if you care to continue the conversation we could do so privately. Hopefully without attacks! (KNOCK IT OFF JACK LOL But I will always keep my heart and door open to you, as GOD did for me!)
Well There you have it. A self analysis of my comments here has taught me to choose my words very carefully! I also noticed that in (These comments) I got a little snooty. I could’ve removed them, but that would misrepresent The truth of MY struggle to overcome my own ego. I AM The Truth Which IS within me! But I AM also in the process of learning what I AM NOT! When we get out of the way and “be still and Know that I am God” Belief takes a back seat! The programming and Doctrines and dogma are removed by THE LIVING WORD that will reveal itself in the stillness of a quite mind! The Kingdom of Heaven is WITHIN you! You don’t have to have a belief about it! Know Thyself means to remove all programming from your mind and discover the truth of yourself! To be Quiet enough inside your mind to hear Inspiration (Holy Spirit) and practice that stillness! To hear and notice through discernment what voices are in your head and where they come from! A preacher, your Mom or Dad, a Teacher or whoever! Ask And it is Given! But only if you are willing to be still and listen! Which is why The word meditate appears at least 18 times …see the following verses for examples…
|1.Genesis 24:63 Genesis 24:62-64 2.Joshua 1:8 Joshua 1:7-9 3.Psalm 1:2 Psalm 1:1-3 4.Psalm 39:3
Psalm 39:2-4 5.
Psalm 48:8-10 6.
Psalm 77:2-4 7.
Psalm 77:5-7 8.
Psalm 77:11-13 9.
Psalm 119:14-16 10.
|Psalm 119:23 Psalm 119:22-24 11.Psalm 119:27 Psalm 119:26-28 12.Psalm 119:48 Psalm 119:47-49 13.Psalm 119:78
Psalm 119:77-79 14.
Psalm 119:96-98 15.
Psalm 119:98-100 16.
Psalm 119:147-149 17.
Psalm 143:4-6 18.
SO let no MAN tell you who GOD is! Not EVEN Your Priest/preacher or ME! Meditate and Listen for to GOD tell you who he is! Be open to others views as they may be a vehicle for His voice! Resistance simply tells you that your heart is closed to new possibilities. You can still choose what is right for you. Even God gives us that choice! What a GREAT example of Love Our God Gives us! To allow our mistakes and lovingly wait until the TRUTH is known! He doesn’t argue with us but instead waits! Knowing we are already perfect as HE created us. HE lets us learn from our mistakes until we see as HE does! We need forgiveness! God Doesn’t see guilt… WE DO! And As we forgive, we see as God does… that no mistake was really ever made!